DH 'highly unlikely' to ban 084 numbers

Tags: 084 DH GP GPs PCTs

03 Jun 2008

The Department of Heath is being urged to make a decision on the use of 084 telephone numbers in GP practices by those campaigning to ban the numbers and those backing the retention of such telephone systems.

However, the company which supplies more than 95% of such systems, NEG Surgery Line, has claimed that the DH is “highly unlikely” to ban the numbers but says GP practices are delaying a decision to sign up while the DH considers the issue.

The DH told PCTs in March that it was looking into the use of 084 telephone numbers following concerns about their use and hoped to decide whether further guidance was needed by the end of March.

However no announcement has been made despite pressure from both NEG Surgery Line and continued attempts to get the numbers banned, including a 28,579 signature e-petition to the Prime Minister.

This week the DH said the investigation was still continuing. A spokesperson for the DH told EHI Primary Care: “The Department is currently gathering evidence on the use of 084 numbers, and will consider what further action is necessary in light of that evidence.

"Ministers believe that decisions about local services are best taken locally, where the local situation and local priorities are best understood. NHS organisations have a duty to ensure that they provide the best possible service to their local populations, and it is for the NHS locally to consider what is in their patients’ best interests. However, the Department has made it clear that it does not expect patients to have to pay more than the cost of a local call."

Campaigner David Hickson argues that patients pay more to call surgeries using 084 numbers compared to practices using local numbers and are effectively subsidising the cost of practice telephone systems, in breach of the NHS pledge that care should be free at the point of need. Part of the profit made on use of 084 numbers is used by NEG Surgery Line to pay for the cost of more advanced telephone systems in practices which the company argues provide a more efficient and better service for patients.

Kath Simons, spokesperson for NEG Surgery Line, told EHI primary Care: “The over-riding fundamental factor is that Surgery Line does work, the vast majority of patients prefer to use it due to the improved access and that practices love it - 1300 practices would not be wrong.”

Simons said the company was pushing the DH to come to a conclusion as it had “tens of practices” wishing to use Surgery Line but hesitant to do so because they were being advised to put their plans on hold by PCTs.

Hickson argues that the DH, NHS bodies, GPs and the telephone suppliers should recognise that patients should not be asked to pay towards the cost of providing NHS services and that other ways should be found to fund necessary service improvements.

He added: “Use of revenue sharing telephone numbers must cease. Proper methods of funding to be applied to new installations could be adapted to enable existing installations to return to compliance. All parties should engage positively with the Department of Health to devise ways in which this can be achieved.”

He also claimed that there was “ample evidence” that delegating the issue to local level had not worked.

He added: “Is the DH really saying that the NHS can be "free at the point of need" in some parts of the UK, but not in others - I think not. PCTs do not have sufficient democratic accountability to make so significant and political a decision.”

Related articles

Johnson steps up pressure on 0844 numbers

Links

DH letter: Use of ‘084’ telephone numbers by local NHS services

Reader's Comments

Patients' views paramount?

pete.horsfield@nhs.net

03 Jun 08 13:06

Prior to installation of the 084 number at my surgery the telephone system was by far the most common gripe in our annual patient survey. Immediately following installation the telephone system leapt to the top of our satisfaction ratings and has remained there since. QED?

Glad to here it

04 Jun 08 09:06

I'm glad the satisfaction level increased so much. It shows the previous system wasn't up to the job. But why do the patients have to fund it? If your surgery was too cold would you ask patients to contribute to your gas bill? GPs are paid to run a business, not boost their profits by fleecing the patients

NEC says "NEG Surgery Line™ is completely self-financing!". No. It's financed by the callers.

"Patients' views paramount?"

04 Jun 08 09:06

Great, but why didn't your practice pay for it rather than making patients pay for it? And if patients' views really are paramount why not publish the normal (geographical) number too so that patients can choose not to pay your higher call charges? Every 084 number has an associated ordinary number.

The government won't ban the 084 numbers because they use them.

Cost confusion over 084 numbers

paul.smith@gp-n81030.nhs.uk

04 Jun 08 10:06

Sirs, There seems to be a state of confusion around these calls. Our surgery has an NEG contract, the call charges paid by patients has been widely investigated and reported by them. However the cost of a call from a BT landline is £0.004 (the third decimal place less than half a 'p') more than the local rate. The cost of calls from other providers varies anything from £0.05 - £0.08 per minute from landlines. There are also the costs from mobile phones which also vary from £0.20 to £0.30 per minute. The other factor is that these calls because they are non-geographic do not fall into the call charge plans increasingly common these days, so these calls are identified on phone bills. If this is looked into by 'OfCom' perhaps they should offer the following guidance 1.Call rates to these specfic medical numbers should be charged by all land line providers at the same rate. 2. These numbers should be able to be packged within a call charge plans. 3. Mobile phone companies should apply a maximum rate of say £0.10 to these medical calls (mobiles are more expensive) In our survey of 084(5) & 0870 (the more expensive version) we found over 380 government numbers all using this type of call plan. We doubt that govnmt depts are 'investing' in new equipment but are taking advantage at the cost of the taxpayer of these revenue sharing schemes. Whereas I would gurantee that 100% of practices taking on this scheme is to improve probably whofully out of date equipment? Interestingly our owm PCT IT help desk now expects us to use an 0870 telephone number?? The financial services system set up by government is out sourcing call centre support to the indian sub continent and the government wants more privatisation of general practice and telehealth to take over from your local GP sorry going into rant mode.

Penalising the Poorest

ted.yeoman@nhs.net

04 Jun 08 10:06

084 numbers are sold by private companies, the vendor makes a profit, they are excluded from call packages so the telecoms providers can finance the packages. So where is the motivation for change?

It remains the patient who will pay for these calls, at a higher rate than their basic or prepaid rate. The people who will suffer most are those who are excluded from contract phone services, the poorest in society. Those who have poor payment histories and who only have access to pay as you go mobiles and public phone boxes.

The analogy with heating is accurate, you are paid to provide a service that is free at the point of delivery.

(post edited by EHI PC)

Grow up!

04 Jun 08 13:06

I think people are being a bit silly here. The cost of contacting the surgery has always been the responsibility of the patient. The GP isn't responsible for the stamp on the envelope, the BT call charge ( even if if is less than 0.0001p or whatever), the line rental, the dial-up internet connection, the mobile phone call, the Sky or Virgin Media rental or even the registered letter. The principle is that the patient is not charged for receiving medical care and that remains unchanged.